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	<title>Comments on: Batman: Jekyll &amp; Hyde #1:  A Medical Review</title>
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	<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750</link>
	<description>a blog of medicine, comics, television, science and other fun stuff</description>
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		<title>By: Ade Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3763</link>
		<dc:creator>Ade Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 10:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, Jenkins was a south Londoner, but he&#039;s obviously never been in Bedlam ;-)
Some of our best writers used to be psychiatric nurses (Moore, Delano?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Jenkins was a south Londoner, but he&#8217;s obviously never been in Bedlam ;-)<br />
Some of our best writers used to be psychiatric nurses (Moore, Delano?)</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3761</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 04:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent points Ade, you hit the nail right on the head.

If I remember correctly,  Jenkins is actually from the UK (Wales, actually) so he&#039;s one of yours...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent points Ade, you hit the nail right on the head.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly,  Jenkins is actually from the UK (Wales, actually) so he&#8217;s one of yours&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ade Brown</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3757</link>
		<dc:creator>Ade Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2005 21:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3757</guid>
		<description>I am so glad I checked here first.
I just sat down and read #1 and #2 today, and being a psychiatric nurse in the UK, I did wonder how bizarrely different US psychiatry might be ;-)

The &quot;dopamine&quot; references lept out at me straight away, as did the spurious differential diagnoses.
I can see a doctor saying that sedatives make meal times better, but try feeding someone who is sedated !

It&#039;s a bit of a stretch to interpret Harvey Dent&#039;s &quot;conversations&quot; with his other self as hallucinations, because he has indicated that the voice is talking to him in the second person. Usually schizophrenia is accompanied by third person voices or &quot;others&quot; taking about the subject. 
(This next bit may be a spoiler, but I don&#039;t know how to hide it. Please delete if necessary:) 
The story seems to be heading towards Harvey&#039;s brother somehow being enacted by Harvey&#039;s voice, and &quot;Two Face&quot; is often derogatory about Harvey - more in keeping with a dissociative reaction to a traumatic event (or two if the acid attack is to be joined by some childhood event).
(Spoiler ends!)

&quot;In effect, he has literally become two people.&quot; UGH!

I favour the dissociative disorder diagnosis (isn&#039;t it a more severe version of Bruce Wayne&#039;s ?) and the use of schizophrenia here just seems to be the classical lay-person&#039;s misuse of the term. However, it is worth considering that paranoid psychoses can include delusions of grandeur, which the Two-Face side of Dent&#039;s personality has in bucket-loads.

Just to strip Paul Jenkins&#039; psychiatrist of any remaining credibility, there is a good case for a form of bi-polar affective disorder linked to the dissociative symptoms. When on a low, Harvey is in control, when manic* he &quot;becomes&quot; Two Face. 
(*These days everyone knows that &quot;manic-depressive&quot; does not mean &quot;very depressed&quot;, don&#039;t they ?)

The biggest flaw in this version of Arkham Asylum is the suggestion that &quot;shock therapy&quot; might be used to &quot;isolate the secondary personality&quot;. As far as I am aware, ECT is predominantly used these days for severely depressed cases. The &quot;Cuckoo&#039;s Nest&quot; stereotype of it being used punitively has long been discredited, although that&#039;s not to say that it does not happen. ECT might be used to allay an episode of mania (but that was not one of the so-called doctor&#039;s diagnoses, was it.) 
The idea of ECT being used to separate dissociative personalities is unfounded, since it would be more likely to remove the secondary personality all together.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad I checked here first.<br />
I just sat down and read #1 and #2 today, and being a psychiatric nurse in the UK, I did wonder how bizarrely different US psychiatry might be ;-)</p>
<p>The &#8220;dopamine&#8221; references lept out at me straight away, as did the spurious differential diagnoses.<br />
I can see a doctor saying that sedatives make meal times better, but try feeding someone who is sedated !</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a bit of a stretch to interpret Harvey Dent&#8217;s &#8220;conversations&#8221; with his other self as hallucinations, because he has indicated that the voice is talking to him in the second person. Usually schizophrenia is accompanied by third person voices or &#8220;others&#8221; taking about the subject.<br />
(This next bit may be a spoiler, but I don&#8217;t know how to hide it. Please delete if necessary:)<br />
The story seems to be heading towards Harvey&#8217;s brother somehow being enacted by Harvey&#8217;s voice, and &#8220;Two Face&#8221; is often derogatory about Harvey &#8211; more in keeping with a dissociative reaction to a traumatic event (or two if the acid attack is to be joined by some childhood event).<br />
(Spoiler ends!)</p>
<p>&#8220;In effect, he has literally become two people.&#8221; UGH!</p>
<p>I favour the dissociative disorder diagnosis (isn&#8217;t it a more severe version of Bruce Wayne&#8217;s ?) and the use of schizophrenia here just seems to be the classical lay-person&#8217;s misuse of the term. However, it is worth considering that paranoid psychoses can include delusions of grandeur, which the Two-Face side of Dent&#8217;s personality has in bucket-loads.</p>
<p>Just to strip Paul Jenkins&#8217; psychiatrist of any remaining credibility, there is a good case for a form of bi-polar affective disorder linked to the dissociative symptoms. When on a low, Harvey is in control, when manic* he &#8220;becomes&#8221; Two Face.<br />
(*These days everyone knows that &#8220;manic-depressive&#8221; does not mean &#8220;very depressed&#8221;, don&#8217;t they ?)</p>
<p>The biggest flaw in this version of Arkham Asylum is the suggestion that &#8220;shock therapy&#8221; might be used to &#8220;isolate the secondary personality&#8221;. As far as I am aware, ECT is predominantly used these days for severely depressed cases. The &#8220;Cuckoo&#8217;s Nest&#8221; stereotype of it being used punitively has long been discredited, although that&#8217;s not to say that it does not happen. ECT might be used to allay an episode of mania (but that was not one of the so-called doctor&#8217;s diagnoses, was it.)<br />
The idea of ECT being used to separate dissociative personalities is unfounded, since it would be more likely to remove the secondary personality all together.</p>
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		<title>By: Johnny B</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3755</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3755</guid>
		<description>In the instances when I&#039;ve read comics in which he appeared, Dent has always come across more pissed-off than insane...but that&#039;s just a lay opinion! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the instances when I&#8217;ve read comics in which he appeared, Dent has always come across more pissed-off than insane&#8230;but that&#8217;s just a lay opinion! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3752</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3752</guid>
		<description>Speaking as a counselor/trained psychologist, I would agree on diagnosing Two-Face as dissociative: not only for past evidence, but his whole decision making process is based on flipping a two-headed coin and letting &quot;it&quot; decide, rather than taking responsibility for his own moral choices.

(With paranoid schizophrenia, my only issue with Dent would be his relative lack of overt symptoms. Sure, he was scarred, but his behavior is a lot more controlled than, say, the Joker&#039;s). He also seems very highly functional for a schizophrenic, but I could see histrionic/antisocial/narcissistic traits.

Sometimes, though, I think writers find buzzwords on the Net and plug them in to sound intelligence (e.g., &quot;dopamine&quot;, &quot;Ritalin&quot;). I know that, with ADHD kids, Ritalin theoretically makes brain activity more &quot;regular&quot;, whereas in non-ADHD, it acts as a stimulant.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking as a counselor/trained psychologist, I would agree on diagnosing Two-Face as dissociative: not only for past evidence, but his whole decision making process is based on flipping a two-headed coin and letting &#8220;it&#8221; decide, rather than taking responsibility for his own moral choices.</p>
<p>(With paranoid schizophrenia, my only issue with Dent would be his relative lack of overt symptoms. Sure, he was scarred, but his behavior is a lot more controlled than, say, the Joker&#8217;s). He also seems very highly functional for a schizophrenic, but I could see histrionic/antisocial/narcissistic traits.</p>
<p>Sometimes, though, I think writers find buzzwords on the Net and plug them in to sound intelligence (e.g., &#8220;dopamine&#8221;, &#8220;Ritalin&#8221;). I know that, with ADHD kids, Ritalin theoretically makes brain activity more &#8220;regular&#8221;, whereas in non-ADHD, it acts as a stimulant.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon H</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3751</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 23:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3751</guid>
		<description>
Not only is Ritalin a stimulant, but it works via dopamine, so it would likely exacerbate schizophrenic symptoms.

But it is often thought of as a sedative, especially by people who think kids are being sedated with it.

I heard a public radio show which was anti-ritalin, and at one point they used a Foo Fighters song to illustrate how Ritalin abuse had entered pop culture. They focused on the lines &quot;ritalin is easy, ritalin is good&quot;. But later lyrics suggest that this was intended as &quot;ritalin is an easy way to deal with your kid&quot; not &quot;ritalin is easy to get for abuse&quot;. The following line mentions &quot;even the ones who watered down the daughter&quot;, suggesting the band was using the common idea of ritalin as a personality-draining sedative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not only is Ritalin a stimulant, but it works via dopamine, so it would likely exacerbate schizophrenic symptoms.</p>
<p>But it is often thought of as a sedative, especially by people who think kids are being sedated with it.</p>
<p>I heard a public radio show which was anti-ritalin, and at one point they used a Foo Fighters song to illustrate how Ritalin abuse had entered pop culture. They focused on the lines &#8220;ritalin is easy, ritalin is good&#8221;. But later lyrics suggest that this was intended as &#8220;ritalin is an easy way to deal with your kid&#8221; not &#8220;ritalin is easy to get for abuse&#8221;. The following line mentions &#8220;even the ones who watered down the daughter&#8221;, suggesting the band was using the common idea of ritalin as a personality-draining sedative.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3749</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3749</guid>
		<description>David, 

You&#039;re right about the Ritalin.  That mistake can easily be explained away on Bruce&#039;s playboy persona, and I meant to add a line to that effect to the original.  I&#039;m not so much correcting a mistake as explaining a misconception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right about the Ritalin.  That mistake can easily be explained away on Bruce&#8217;s playboy persona, and I meant to add a line to that effect to the original.  I&#8217;m not so much correcting a mistake as explaining a misconception.</p>
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		<title>By: David Oakes</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3748</link>
		<dc:creator>David Oakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3748</guid>
		<description>Diagnosis - 

Isn&#039;t Paranoid Schizophrenia exactly what Harvy has?  A &quot;preoccupation&quot; with delusions (other, coin, two) but none of the other symptoms of schizophrenia?  (Though why they insist on calling it &quot;schizophrenia&quot; much less muddy the waters with &quot;paranoid&quot; continues to astound me.)

I personally believe in MPD, and believe that it is exactly what Harvey has.  I mean, he was created to embody exactly that disorder.  But for those that don&#039;t believe in the disorder, PS would seem to be a pretty good fit.  (Though ineptly handled, the claim that they don&#039;t know what Harvey has might be an attempt to show that the staff is not united in a belief in MPD as a diagnosis.)

Spot on on the APD, Narcissisim, and Histrionic too.  Too bad people - and not just comics writers - seem to feel that mental disorders are singular and mutually exclusive.

Party - 

Bruice obviously confused the nature of the drugs to further his image as an incompetant playboy.  The doctor was naturally tired of trying to explain to fine points of psychopharmacology to idiots just looking to get high, and let it slide.  (This is why we need more footnotes:  &quot;Of course kids, we all know that Ritalin is an upper.  Batman is just pretnding! - Ed.&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diagnosis &#8211; </p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t Paranoid Schizophrenia exactly what Harvy has?  A &#8220;preoccupation&#8221; with delusions (other, coin, two) but none of the other symptoms of schizophrenia?  (Though why they insist on calling it &#8220;schizophrenia&#8221; much less muddy the waters with &#8220;paranoid&#8221; continues to astound me.)</p>
<p>I personally believe in MPD, and believe that it is exactly what Harvey has.  I mean, he was created to embody exactly that disorder.  But for those that don&#8217;t believe in the disorder, PS would seem to be a pretty good fit.  (Though ineptly handled, the claim that they don&#8217;t know what Harvey has might be an attempt to show that the staff is not united in a belief in MPD as a diagnosis.)</p>
<p>Spot on on the APD, Narcissisim, and Histrionic too.  Too bad people &#8211; and not just comics writers &#8211; seem to feel that mental disorders are singular and mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>Party &#8211; </p>
<p>Bruice obviously confused the nature of the drugs to further his image as an incompetant playboy.  The doctor was naturally tired of trying to explain to fine points of psychopharmacology to idiots just looking to get high, and let it slide.  (This is why we need more footnotes:  &#8220;Of course kids, we all know that Ritalin is an upper.  Batman is just pretnding! &#8211; Ed.&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3747</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3747</guid>
		<description>Many of the psychological symptoms are subjective and open to interpretation (especially when many different authors write Two-Face).  When Dent is talking to himself, is that a hallucination, delusion or his two personalities &quot;conversing&quot;?  I favor the latter, but your mileage may vary.
 
I&#039;ll stick with my diagnosis(which is based primarily on his appearances over the past 5-6 years), but other interpretations are eually valid (and may be better if they&#039;ve been reading Batman longer).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of the psychological symptoms are subjective and open to interpretation (especially when many different authors write Two-Face).  When Dent is talking to himself, is that a hallucination, delusion or his two personalities &#8220;conversing&#8221;?  I favor the latter, but your mileage may vary.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll stick with my diagnosis(which is based primarily on his appearances over the past 5-6 years), but other interpretations are eually valid (and may be better if they&#8217;ve been reading Batman longer).</p>
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		<title>By: Aine</title>
		<link>http://www.politedissent.com/archives/750/comment-page-1#comment-3746</link>
		<dc:creator>Aine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://politedissent.com/archives/750#comment-3746</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t Dent also suffer from disorganized speech? I mean, depending on who&#039;s writing his lines, Dent does talk to himself or has conversations with Two-Face, abruptly changes subject, sings to himself etc. I&#039;ed certainly have problems having a conversation with him (mind you, that would probably be due to the fact that I would be very preoccupied with not wanting to die).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t Dent also suffer from disorganized speech? I mean, depending on who&#8217;s writing his lines, Dent does talk to himself or has conversations with Two-Face, abruptly changes subject, sings to himself etc. I&#8217;ed certainly have problems having a conversation with him (mind you, that would probably be due to the fact that I would be very preoccupied with not wanting to die).</p>
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